Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
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Ravishing
Uninspiring Title
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I crafted in eq2 and all I remember was setting my AHK script and then going to bed
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In Sorrow We Share that Molad Has Passed Away - Pantheon Forums
With heavy hearts, we regret to share that Kurt “Molad” Habetler has passed away. Kurt was a cornerstone of Visionary Realms as Technology Lead. He was a kind and gentle soul. Kurt was very thoughtful with everyone he met and had a way of instantly making you feel at ease. His identifiable and...seforums.pantheonmmo.com
uh oh, another 1 year delay in the release.
Hell Pantheon has killed more people than Covid at this point.
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shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
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shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
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dizzie
Triggered Happy
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The old crafting system in EQ2 on release was very good. They originally made it so that crafting classes needed each other to produce certain combines like high level spells and rare armour. The biggest thing in EQ2 at launch was that everything you gathered, harvested or mined needed to be refined before it could be used to produce something worthwhile. It was hard to level and expensive and like I say you needed to know other people at a similar level to get refined stuff you could use.
Rares were also very rare at the time and things like Ebon/ruby etc you ended up normally buying with dkp as raid bosses dropped them. Some crafted gear was best in slot for a while in T5.
They nerfed the shit out of it and made it easy mode after a couple of expansions, but it was very rewarding for a while and the richest players were crafting people for a long time.
Maximis Velocity
Professional Lurker
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Starwars Galaxies had the best crafting system. Gathering unique resources that were seasonal and random as to which planet they would spawn on was an amazing meta. The community dependency in early EQ2 was great. I never played Vanguard to compare to that one.
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This. It was great near release, but the removal of interdependency between classes and crafted item quality levels ruined the system for crafters. The changes to crafting meant that you can just sit in front of a crafting table on one character and get to level cap. That used to be the case, but it was a significant journey and you wouldn't make much others needed depending on your class.
The game didn't require you to actually do the crafting yourself to get the gear from it. There was always a separation between 'crafters and adventurers' that was respected throughout the whole game's lifespan.
Until Dave Georgeson wanted to add pay-to-win mechanics to the crafting system, and allow you to research spells by just paying Station Cash for them. Then crafting became massively devalued, as well as "Master" rank spells, the rank after Adept III (now known as "Expert" spells) which you can simply pay money for. Also, the Solstice earring quest was possibly the first break from that - though, you could argue the first implementation of that earring was useful to *everyone*, crafters and adventurers: Earring of the Solstice
Compared to the one now, which is here:
Earring of the Solstice
\aITEM -642327463 -1630209615:Earring of the Solstice\/a \aITEM -642327463 -1630209615:Earring of the Solstice\/a What does this information mean? As of LU46, characters that have completed The Proof of the Pudding and received their earring can see Master Artisan Red Shinies. Each collection...
They basically shit on the crafting system for monetization as years went on past that. Crafting is largely devalued because itemization in general is a fucking mess on EQ2 now, but that's a separate issue in itself. DPS is measured in the trillions for raidwide at this point. The playerbase dies off after Sentinel's Fate finishes on their progression servers because every expansion past that is utter dogshit. And even then, Sentinel's Fate loses half of the playerbase who love Kunark/Shadow Odyssey.
EQ1/EQ2 really needs to just do a reset to the point where players like and build content based on that point in time (For EQ2 - Kunark/TSO, For EQ1 it could be any point between Velious -> OoW). But that'll never happen because that would destroy their current monetization ability (Krono, Pay-To-Win upgrades, Experience Potions, etc.)
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Nirgon
YOU HAVE NO POWER HERE
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So you farm things then combine over and over, your skill goes up. Mind blowing.
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If Pantheon was EQ1 classic with fuzzy troll models, pvp and full loot, and an 18 month reset, we'd both play the shit out of it. Fuck crafting.
Alas.
Oh, no multiboxing either. Anyone found grouping 80%+ of the time with the same folks gets suspended until its explained. Unsure why this was never implemented on p1999, boxers keep their shit secret, or share it with a select group of people and/or other boxers.
E
If anything pay to win is more present in classic and kunark than in any later Era because you spend way more time xping and buffs/clickies aren't common enough so people use tons of potions.
Eq tlp plays one way from classic through kunark, because raid content isn't enough to gear characters you have to do group stuff and another way from velious through maybe tbs or later, there is a long time there where eq is pretty stable. Eq tlps lose players in the oow Era because there is a 9 month stretch of being level 70 with little content, cut that in half and eq tlps would be healthier longer.This. It was great near release, but the removal of interdependency between classes and crafted item quality levels ruined the system for crafters. The changes to crafting meant that you can just sit in front of a crafting table on one character and get to level cap. That used to be the case, but it was a significant journey and you wouldn't make much others needed depending on your class.
The game didn't require you to actually do the crafting yourself to get the gear from it. There was always a separation between 'crafters and adventurers' that was respected throughout the whole game's lifespan.
Until Dave Georgeson wanted to add pay-to-win mechanics to the crafting system, and allow you to research spells by just paying Station Cash for them. Then crafting became massively devalued, as well as "Master" rank spells, the rank after Adept III (now known as "Expert" spells) which you can simply pay money for. Also, the Solstice earring quest was possibly the first break from that - though, you could argue the first implementation of that earring was useful to *everyone*, crafters and adventurers: Earring of the Solstice
Compared to the one now, which is here:
Earring of the Solstice
\aITEM -642327463 -1630209615:Earring of the Solstice\/a \aITEM -642327463 -1630209615:Earring of the Solstice\/a What does this information mean? As of LU46, characters that have completed The Proof of the Pudding and received their earring can see Master Artisan Red Shinies. Each collection...eq2.fandom.com
They basically shit on the crafting system for monetization as years went on past that. Crafting is largely devalued because itemization in general is a fucking mess on EQ2 now, but that's a separate issue in itself. DPS is measured in the trillions for raidwide at this point. The playerbase dies off after Sentinel's Fate finishes on their progression servers because every expansion past that is utter dogshit. And even then, Sentinel's Fate loses half of the playerbase who love Kunark/Shadow Odyssey.
EQ1/EQ2 really needs to just do a reset to the point where players like and build content based on that point in time (For EQ2 - Kunark/TSO, For EQ1 it could be any point between Velious -> OoW). But that'll never happen because that would destroy their current monetization ability (Krono, Pay-To-Win upgrades, Experience Potions, etc.)
If anything pay to win is more present in classic and kunark than in any later Era because you spend way more time xping and buffs/clickies aren't common enough so people use tons of potions.
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P2W is even worse in EQ2. The comments there are in reference to EQ2 and P2W being abundant. You can pay for power upgrades there (Mercenaries, Overlord, Infusers, Spell Research, Stat Mounts / Stat Familiars from loot boxes in the DBC shop, Consumables w/ Krono)
For EQ1: My point is less on the era P2W affects the most, but moreso that it is present in any shape or form. It's a roleplaying game. The role has been taken out of roleplaying. Gone are the days where you play a character with a backstory and choices. Now you're playing a class with skillsets and trying to rush to max level by paying money.
Character choices are replaced with borrowed power systems that are deprecated or revamped with each expansion. WoW has this issue, as does EQ1/EQ2.
Personally, I have no interest in content past OoW. There's a large group of people that agree on OoW or earlier. IE; people who play Project 1999/other emus.
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Kharzette
Watcher of Overs
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I loved that you could have different colored eyes in Aion, and the little leaf umbrella when it rained
I too liked SWG with its random shifting resources, I guess from convection in the mantle for tectonically active planets. Like any random gameplay element though a website was created and eventually you didn't even need much skill at surveying. Just hit the site and drive till you see a huge cluster of harvesters.
If I could change it I'd compute an overall usefulness stat (hidden) and make the time it was spawned dependent to keep the very best stuff rare.
I'd also make asteroid resources random. I don't really know why they didn't randomize those.
SWG also had dedicated craft skilltrees. It wasn't so severe that your character could only craft, but it would take a good chunk, probably 1/3rd of your available skill points. This only really worked because most people didn't do the multibox thing back then, and you could only have one character per server.
Nowadays you have the everyone-is-a-crafter problem. If everyone can make everything why buy anything? Just make it yourself? There's no economy. I don't have a good solution for that.
Even worse is that most players have no concept of value and end up dumping the crap they made to level on the markets for less than the cost of materials. SWG handled that via "practice mode" where you could do the crafting steps and gain double experience but get no item out of it.
If you do find some way to limit crafting to dedicated crafters, then you can do things like SWG's cool factory system, where a unique item can be converted into a schematic with I think around 50 uses. A factory can then churn out 50 perfect copies assuming you can get exactly the required resources.
I'm working on some really detailed crafting stuff for a survival game. Probably wouldn't work well in a mmo, but doing stuff like electrodes in seawater tanks to purify aluminum and get byproducts for explosives and drugs and such.
I too liked SWG with its random shifting resources, I guess from convection in the mantle for tectonically active planets. Like any random gameplay element though a website was created and eventually you didn't even need much skill at surveying. Just hit the site and drive till you see a huge cluster of harvesters.
If I could change it I'd compute an overall usefulness stat (hidden) and make the time it was spawned dependent to keep the very best stuff rare.
I'd also make asteroid resources random. I don't really know why they didn't randomize those.
SWG also had dedicated craft skilltrees. It wasn't so severe that your character could only craft, but it would take a good chunk, probably 1/3rd of your available skill points. This only really worked because most people didn't do the multibox thing back then, and you could only have one character per server.
Nowadays you have the everyone-is-a-crafter problem. If everyone can make everything why buy anything? Just make it yourself? There's no economy. I don't have a good solution for that.
Even worse is that most players have no concept of value and end up dumping the crap they made to level on the markets for less than the cost of materials. SWG handled that via "practice mode" where you could do the crafting steps and gain double experience but get no item out of it.
If you do find some way to limit crafting to dedicated crafters, then you can do things like SWG's cool factory system, where a unique item can be converted into a schematic with I think around 50 uses. A factory can then churn out 50 perfect copies assuming you can get exactly the required resources.
I'm working on some really detailed crafting stuff for a survival game. Probably wouldn't work well in a mmo, but doing stuff like electrodes in seawater tanks to purify aluminum and get byproducts for explosives and drugs and such.
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Nirgon
YOU HAVE NO POWER HERE
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Skyrim had the only good crafting system. Minus the % skill loops.
The rest were forgettable "manual macro" or risking a ban. I did max poison making on EQ2 TLP for vanilla and Desert of Flame. It was maybe the worst. Prob worse than daoc cuz of the extra doins. Not that the extra doins were a bad concept, just heh whew.
The rest were forgettable "manual macro" or risking a ban. I did max poison making on EQ2 TLP for vanilla and Desert of Flame. It was maybe the worst. Prob worse than daoc cuz of the extra doins. Not that the extra doins were a bad concept, just heh whew.