The Elder Scrolls Online

Utnayan · Mar 8, 2014

Rescorla_sl said:
Paul Sage created a thread on the forums to get feedback on the issue. It's turned into a drama

Jesus Christ. Fix the god damn issues with the game.

Is it that fucking hard.

Caliane · Mar 8, 2014

Dmitry_sl said:
The strategic problem of GW2 was that supply lines did not really matter and so just zerging around was the best strat. I see some of the same problem but at least the teleport network might add some strat to where you attack. But yeah... nothing as unskilled as a big ball of zerg in GW2. One good leader and a pack of autoattacking fools could do fine until they hit a reall RvR guild.

There was alot more then that.

Point system needs to be dropped in an RvR game. The arbitrary awarding of points based on time held, resulting in a win/loss scenario is massively flawed.
To point out the obvious, EvE sure as hell doesn't have that. EvE does not have a "winner" every 2 weeks. Several major problems with RvR are a direct result of the point system.

1. off hours captures. Capturing keeps vs doors at off peak hours, and then holding them for 6-12 hours before the opposition logs back in. if holding keeps is only a matter of zone control, or rewards to people who are directly online while its being held. off hours holding will only matter in terms of upgrades on the keep.
2. Creates scenarios of unwinnable matches. at which point everyone logs off.
3. zerg balls, pvdoor, etc. all due to the point system where "winning" by points is all that matters. and one point=any other point.

Holding keeps, etc, in RvR should be its own reward. Maybe rams can only be built at one specific keep. holy shit. suddenly holding and keeping that keep is pretty important right?
I think teso here has actual materials for upgrades? like lumberyards give wood, mines give ore, for upgrades. and thus you do need specific ones, and not just arbitrary "supply". A bit better, but so localized. And its not like that lumber, ore, etc has a use outside of the building upgrades.

Telestin · Mar 8, 2014

signati_sl said:
We've only seen the very beginning of the game. The way we're passing judgement about the game as a whole would be like judging Everquest based on Greater Faydark and Crushbone alone.

This is a very good point. However, let me offer a counterpoint.

The way I see it, MMO's should be fun from the outset. The first ten levels of TESO is a tedious, mind-numbing grind. Sure, if you re-roll it will go faster, especially if you breeze through the diarrhea waterfall of dialogue. While I agree that we have not even scratched the surface of the game - for me, those first ten levels are downright awful. My opinion is not based on bugs. My opinion is based entirely on content.

I don't know about other people, but when I hit level 10 I stopped PvE. Frankly speaking, the PvP was 100x more fun than the PvE . . . even if it does bear several similarities to DAOC, WAR and GW2.

If I were to purchase TESO, I would level to 10 and then do nothing but PvP, because the PvE content is so painfully dull, it's like apunishment. No, I have not seen the "big picture" of the game yet. Like everyone else, I have only taken the game for a "test drive". But after experiencing this "test drive", all I see is a lemon. I don't spend money on the "potential" of a game . . . Vanguard taught me that.

Creslin · Mar 8, 2014

The problem is people dont care about some abstract concept of their 'realm'. In DFUW you had people fighting tooth and nail and politiking an insane amount for cities that were essentially worthless, but you cared because that was your guild flag flying over it and your prestige on the line on the forums when you lost it. It doesn't help that in an RVR game keeps flip so fast its hard to care even if they let you put your mark on it.

In every real pvp game where people care about territory the siege warfare is designed around long periods of stalemate, an RVR game would need to embrace that as well to get people to truly care. Think how little people would give a shit about defending a region in EVE if the game was designed such that you could take entire regions in a day and lose them again at night. Stuff just changes hands too fast for people to really care. People would care far more if the siege of some cyrodil keep was a week long offensive instead of a 30 minute zerg. RVR games should be about letting everyone piggy back in on the great alliance warfare in games like DF and EVE, instead its made fast paced like a COD map and no one gives a shit about the objectives.

Upgrades and bonuses and exclusive crafting is all secondary to those two main issues.

Blackwulf · Mar 8, 2014

Boloboy_sl said:
Twitchguy going through werewolf quest from start to end. Adventure zone info coming VERY SOON. Ability to change FoV in first person. Ability to pick up weapons/armor in the world as well as more items. Turning off buffing to cap in pvp as it can hurt in some cases as you get to higher lvl. Also working on a fix to make sure groups don't end up in different phases!

Yeah, I guess Sage put this one the PTS last night:

From the PTS:
Hey everyone,
I just wanted to drop a line in to talk about some things coming to the game in the future that we thought you might want to know about. Of course, there is way more happening than what is listed here, with team busy on many initiatives including continued bug fixing, balancing, and other features. But these are things we can offer some tidbits on that you?ll hopefully be seeing soon. As with anything in development, things could change, so we are not guaranteeing these.
Adventure Zone ? Craglorn and Trials We are going to be talking about this in lots of detail very soon. I know everyone is eager for details, and they will come soon.
FOV Slider There isn?t a lot to say about this feature that isn?t in the title, other than we will be adding it in. We know different people have different Field Of View settings which will make them comfortable, or just not nauseous.
Improved World Interactivity You will be able to pick up even more objects in the world, including picking up that sword or armor off the rack.
Death Recap In your darkest hour, we rub it in. Just kidding. When you die, you will now be informed of who or what killed you, what the last top five events were that contributed to your death, and offer some hints that might contribute to your success in the future. This will be a UI element that comes up when you die. We don?t want you to die, but if you do, we want you to be a better person for it.
Battle Level Off We're adding a toggle so you?ll be able to turn off battle leveling in Cyrodiil if you wish.
Exclusive Full Screen Mode In Digicolor. Okay, Digicolor isn?t really a thing, but exclusive full screen mode sounded so impressive, I thought I should embellish. Sorry about that.
Player Separation We know that group members can become separated in some of our content, and we are looking at ways to make sure you stay together with your group members. We are currently testing some solutions.
So there you go. Just a peek into what?s coming up, and really, that?s only a small portion of what we are working on. We?ll be announcing more in the upcoming weeks, and I?m looking forward to seeing you at launch.
Paul

Utnayan · Mar 8, 2014

Blackwulf_sl said:
Yeah, I guess Sage put this one the PTS last night:

Yeah I guess maybe it should read like this:

"Hello. I am a jackass. I am sorry that I stole resources and now I am selling futures. Rather than actually fix the mess I made, let me talk about a few peter molyneux things no one gives a shit about. Instead, I am going to make sure the game fucking loads and runs the way you want it too because the PvP matters, more than my 17 passes of the tutorial content. So for the next 3 weeks we are going to open beta everything and adjust all the stress on the fly so when it comes to launch time you can actually have a game to play the way * YOU * want to play it."

Wouldn't that be nice?

What a fucking douche bag.

(Sorry in advance)

moontayle · Mar 8, 2014

Everytime I turn around there's something that makes me believe this game is a good six months away from being ready for release, not a month. No information about the end game (at least SWTOR talked about EV and they even showed you the first boss), no open testing of high level areas (which are still under NDA apparently), and enough technical issues with the PvP to give most people pause (in Cyrodil, latency is your greatest enemy). I'm not going to say this will be initial FFIV release levels of horrendous, but I'm thinking first day SWG release, where every aspect of registration and login broke and they had to "start over" the next day once the issue was resolved.

Blackwulf · Mar 8, 2014

Utnayan_sl said:
Yeah I guess maybe it should read like this:

"Hello. I am a jackass. I am sorry that I stole resources and now I am selling futures. Rather than actually fix the mess I made, let me talk about a few peter molyneux things no one gives a shit about. Instead, I am going to make sure the game fucking loads and runs the way you want it too because the PvP matters, more than my 17 passes of the tutorial content. So for the next 3 weeks we are going to open beta everything and adjust all the stress on the fly so when it comes to launch time you can actually have a game to play the way * YOU * want to play it."

Wouldn't that be nice?

What a fucking douche bag.

(Sorry in advance)

This was shorter than your usually wall of text rant, so I read it. Let's just say that was a bad decision.

moontayle_sl said:
Everytime I turn around there's something that makes me believe this game is a good six months away from being ready for release, not a month. No information about the end game (at least SWTOR talked about EV and they even showed you the first boss), no open testing of high level areas (which are still under NDA apparently), and enough technical issues with the PvP to give most people pause (in Cyrodil, latency is your greatest enemy). I'm not going to say this will be initial FFIV release levels of horrendous, but I'm thinking first day SWG release, where every aspect of registration and login broke and they had to "start over" the next day once the issue was resolved.

Are people retarded on this forum? Every one of your posts is dumb. There IS end game. You can watch streams of veteran content including dungeons. High level shit is NOT under NDA - you can fucking watch streams of PTS players in high level content. Cyrodiil does NOT give MOST people pause. MOST people are pretty damn interested in Cyrodiil.

The ONLY thing under wraps are Adventure Zones, and I'm betting on the wraps coming off in the next week or so.

zzeris · Mar 8, 2014

I also think this game should be released in maybe 3 months. They are fixing issues but more issues remain than I'd be comfortable with out of a major release. Unless, the true focus is on the console release. Since the bar on original content hasn't been raised, it should run really well out of the gates right? JMO.

Dmitry · Mar 8, 2014

I just wanted to drop a line in to talk about some things coming to the game in the future that we thought you might want to know about. Of course, there is way more happening than what is listed here, with team busy on many initiatives including continued bug fixing, balancing, and other features. But these are things we can offer some tidbits on that you?ll hopefullybe seeing soon. As with anything in development, things could change, so we are not guaranteeing these.

What? So these are not even guaranteed for release... in fact they sound like they are more likely coming after release??? Also, I hope he is paying royalties on "Soon" which was trademarked by Sony in relation to EQ.

Adventure Zone ? Craglorn and Trials We are going to be talking about this in lots of detail very soon. I know everyone is eager for details, and they will come soon.

Naggy and Lady Vox... if EQ taught us anything, you can get away with two endgame encounters for a long time if you make them hard enough. Welcome to 1999.

Improved World Interactivity You will be able to pick up even more objects in the world, including picking up that sword or armor off the rack.

Awesome, more crap that won't fit into my completely shitty list driven tiny backpack.

Death Recap In your darkest hour, we rub it in. Just kidding. When you die, you will now be informed of who or what killed you, what the last top five events were that contributed to your death, and offer some hints that might contribute to your success in the future.

This will be epic if it includes things like "Don't get married so that you have to go AFK in the middle of a dungeon to take out the trash to get your wife to let you play more." Or maybe the more mundane, don't drop your mouse and cause your guy to walk off a cliff.

Exclusive Full Screen Mode In Digicolor. Okay, Digicolor isn?t really a thing, but exclusive full screen mode sounded so impressive, I thought I should embellish. Sorry about that.

Tard

Player Separation We know that group members can become separated in some of our content, and we are looking at ways to make sure you stay together with your group members. We are currently testing some solutions.

Oh take your time... that won't cause anyone to lose their fucking mind trying to play with friends and guildmates on Day 1.

So there you go. Just a peek into what?s coming up, and really, that?s only a small portion of what we are working on. We?ll be announcing more in the upcoming weeks, and I?m looking forward to seeing you at launch.
Paul

Notice the vagueness of "weeks" does not mean "before we take your fucking money."

Caliane · Mar 8, 2014

moontayle_sl said:
Everytime I turn around there's something that makes me believe this game is a good six months away from being ready for release, not a month. No information about the end game (at least SWTOR talked about EV and they even showed you the first boss), no open testing of high level areas (which are still under NDA apparently), and enough technical issues with the PvP to give most people pause (in Cyrodil, latency is your greatest enemy). I'm not going to say this will be initial FFIV release levels of horrendous, but I'm thinking first day SWG release, where every aspect of registration and login broke and they had to "start over" the next day once the issue was resolved.

eh, thats ever mmo. Every single one, would be an entirely different and FAR better game, if it could somehow have had a 6month open beta period.

Ill definitely give it credit for not being the compete clusterfuck DCUO, TSW, were at launch.

Dmitry · Mar 8, 2014

moontayle_sl said:
Everytime I turn around there's something that makes me believe this game is a good six months away from being ready for release, not a month. No information about the end game (at least SWTOR talked about EV and they even showed you the first boss), no open testing of high level areas (which are still under NDA apparently), and enough technical issues with the PvP to give most people pause (in Cyrodil, latency is your greatest enemy). I'm not going to say this will be initial FFIV release levels of horrendous, but I'm thinking first day SWG release, where every aspect of registration and login broke and they had to "start over" the next day once the issue was resolved.

It's going to be one of those releases. I for one cannot wait for the transition from "It's beta" to "MMOs are never complete." Those two sycophantic phrases mean the same thing but at least I can save my progress with the second one.

moontayle · Mar 8, 2014

If those things exist (and I'm going to have to take your word for it because I'm not that interested in finding out), then I stand corrected. And yes, some of the key aspects of Cyrodil are being discussed here in what might best be described as "cautious tones". 90-day campaigns, the Emperor mechanic, technical aspects in general. The people I talk to in the real world who are interested are cautiously optimistic but I'm sure you're smart enough to understand the key word there. We could all be wrong. Everything could be awesome right out of the gate, everything works great (though never perfect), and everyone is happy about how the way things turned out. The release of TESO could become a seminal moment in the history of MMOs that we talk about for decades to come.

Or it could fall flat on its ass.

My guess it closer to the latter than the former but that's just my opinion. I'll reiterate that I think this game'll float on the fact that it's Elder Scrolls... ONLINE!... but from everything I've seen and experienced I believe this game would best be served with more time in development and an extended open beta period (two weeks to a month) before people are asked to shell out $60+ dollars and a sub fee.

Caliane_sl said:
eh, thats ever mmo. Every single one, would be an entirely different and FAR better game, if it could somehow have had a 6month open beta period.

Ill definitely give it credit for not being the compete clusterfuck DCUO, TSW, were at launch.

You speak truth but I think this game especially needs the additional time to iron out the bigger issues giving people pause.

Dmitry · Mar 8, 2014

moontayle_sl said:
If those things exist (and I'm going to have to take your word for it because I'm not that interested in finding out), then I stand corrected. And yes, some of the key aspects of Cyrodil are being discussed here in what might best be described as "cautious tones". 90-day campaigns, the Emperor mechanic, technical aspects in general. The people I talk to in the real world who are interested are cautiously optimistic but I'm sure you're smart enough to understand the key word there. We could all be wrong. Everything could be awesome right out of the gate, everything works great (though never perfect), and everyone is happy about how the way things turned out. The release of TESO could become a seminal moment in the history of MMOs that we talk about for decades to come.

Or it could fall flat on its ass.

My guess it closer to the latter than the former but that's just my opinion. I'll reiterate that I think this game'll float on the fact that it's Elder Scrolls... ONLINE!... but from everything I've seen and experienced I believe this game would best be served with more time in development and an extended open beta period (two weeks to a month) before people are asked to shell out $60+ dollars and a sub fee.

I saw a great vid today of a battle on a bridge today. Most of the battle was standard stuff but someone set up Trebs on one bank at the right angle to cover the unprotected middle of the bridge and the other side had no counter trebs. it was a gloriously cool strategy thing that made the rest of the plink plink push push battle soooo much cooler. There is definitely potential in Cyrodil.

Cinge · Mar 8, 2014

Bridges are fun. Because if you get a group of 10ish people to stealth around and flank, you take out so many people. It's also hilarious to watch the people who try to swim in the water too long and get killed by the fish or knock people off the bridge into the killer fish

Caliane · Mar 8, 2014

moontayle_sl said:
You speak truth but I think this game especially needs the additional time to iron out the bigger issues giving people pause.

yeah, and don't get me wrong. its not really a defense or pass.
It's shitty that this is true. It's just what can we do about it? And, its not like the bar has been set higher. If ANY other mmo launched truly ready, then we can really complain. But when they are all like this. eh. thats where the bar is set. And we can't really point fingers at any one game.

Soft launches. I want to see them.
Look at Landmark.

Daidraco · Mar 8, 2014

The nitpicking at this game is amazing. Im not even a huge fan of this game but some of you are just pants on head fucking retarded.

You start with 50 slot inventory in ESO with the option to upgrade several times. You start with a 20 slot bag in WoW with the option to get more bags. Other MMO's are worse than that. What are you complaining about? That they put more shit in the world that you can pick up for free? Just like in... Skyrim, Morrowind, Elder Scrolls in general?...

Two Adventure Zones and plenty of Veteran Rank 1-10 content to watch on youtube. Its there and has been wrote about several times on several Game review sites. Take your head out of your ass for a second. You also complain about not only not enough "launch" content, but not recognize that again, WoW and several other MMO's launch each expansion with just "one" raid zone. Expansion or Launch, its true. Cause who the fuck cares about you soloing old content raid zone bosses. If you couldnt even take the time to look into reviews and videos about the content, how can you even begin to comment about how difficult it is. Besides, Id rather the content be ball slamming difficult than vapid as hell.

This game isnt the next coming of Christ, but some of you are throwing shit at anything the devs say.

Caliane · Mar 8, 2014

Wow gives you and appropriate number of bag slots for WoW.
Wow does not hand you 25 kinds of gemstones at level 2 for crafting styles. Wow does not give you 15 kinds of runes by level 5.

The bag space was a very valid complaint.
And one of the patch notes for the PTS, very clearly noted increasing the number of slots in both player and bank. So it was in fact such a valid complaint, which all the weekend beta testers experienced, they changed it.

Daidraco · Mar 8, 2014

Caliane_sl said:
Wow gives you and appropriate number of bag slots for WoW.
Wow does not hand you 25 kinds of gemstones at level 2 for crafting styles. Wow does not give you 15 kinds of runes by level 5.

The bag space was a very valid complaint.
And one of the patch notes for the PTS, very clearly noted increasing the number of slots in both player and bank. So it was in fact such a valid complaint, which all the weekend beta testers experienced, they changed it.

You arent limited to what you can gather in ESO. You are in WoW by your gathering professions.If you only harvested for one crafting profession the complaint wouldnt be valid.The freedom to craft and gather whatever you want is turning out to be limited, not by a hard coded wall against what you can and cannot do, but how much you can carry. Im glad they are giving more bag space. Who wouldnt be? But the original "Vision" wasnt a bad one.

Dahkoht_sl · Mar 8, 2014

Tuco_sl said:
It can, yeah. The first few times you write the infrastructure to transmit, say, xml over a network it's new and exciting. After that you just need to look for the small things to appreciate to keep it from being too boring.

Mini hijack if don't mind , was curious if you (or anyone else with coding background ) has recommendations on the best language to start with learning any sort of coding ? I see it argued about all over , but would like hearing some of you folks recommendations.

My background is a Sys Engineer for around 15 years, so Active Directory to Exchange to Cisco and general networking is what I know about , but always on the side wanted to just pickup some sort of programming for the heck of it. Doesn't have to be something necessarily I would use for my Engineer job directly , more the idea of learning basics of coding beyond the scripting and Powershell stuff I do.

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The Elder Scrolls Online

Utnayan

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