The Falcon and the Winter Soldier

a c i d.f l y

a c i d.f l y

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Last episode felt wildly rushed and crammed. But it flowed decently, while also being all over the fucking place. "We don't know what story we're trying to tell, but let's wrap up boys!" All of these loose ends without really having any finality or weight to any of it.

The quintessential line about "no you move" said by Sharon that should have been said by Cap just sort of doubly ruins and taints her character after her actions and portrayal across this series. Who the fuck is she. Why are good people falling into mustache twirling, corrupt villains? Or was that just all misdirection. Who knows. I stopped caring.

Villains that you're suddenly supposed to sympathetize with. Zemo, Karli, and back and forth on US Agent. Though Zemo and Agent's performances were knocked out of the park.

Mackie's speech at the end, and pressing elected government officials to do better was heartfelt, not as good as what Cap or Chris Evans would have said or done, and ultimately falls flat because we all know they're not going to do better, and more Karli characters are gonna keep springing up, and people like Falcon will keep cleaning them up. That's the way comics go. Like war. Death. And taxes.
 
j00t

j00t

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i didn't take it as bucky hacking the app. he took out like 5 guys on his own... could have easily just picked up one of their phones, which is what i thought he did. same as just grabbing someone's phone and sending a text as them. the text on the app said "meet me here"

and bucky's whole thing is that the winter soldier is a machine. bucky is just a guy with guilt issues. that's not to say that bucky can't kick some ass, just that he is ALWAYS holding back because he knows if he doesn't he's going to lose himself and hurt people. THAT'S why he can't be cap. at least, that's why he can't be cap NOW. he makes a GREAT cap in the comics so it'd be nice to see him take up the shield on screen, but that would be a while
 
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Lithose

Lithose

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Show kind of lost me. Way too rushed for any of the arcs to feel organic. Some of it felt downright clumsy in terms of narrative, especially the main arc with the flag smashers. They kept trying to make them sympathetic but they just weren't, and it got really obtuse by the end.

Superhero shows in general should avoid these kinds of gray themes, especially given how rushed this shit was.
 
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Gavinmad

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Lithose said:
Show kind of lost me. Way too rushed for any of the arcs to feel organic. Some of it felt downright clumsy in terms of narrative, especially the main arc with the flag smashers. They kept trying to make them sympathetic but they just weren't, and it got really obtuse by the end.

Superhero shows in general should avoid these kinds of gray themes, especially given how rushed this shit was.
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They WERE sympathetic until Karli decided to start murdering people.

Also I didn't realize she was a gender-bent character. Flag-Smasher is a character in the comics named Karl Morgenthau lol.
 
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Merrith

Merrith

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Lithose said:
Show kind of lost me. Way too rushed for any of the arcs to feel organic. Some of it felt downright clumsy in terms of narrative, especially the main arc with the flag smashers. They kept trying to make them sympathetic but they just weren't, and it got really obtuse by the end.

Superhero shows in general should avoid these kinds of gray themes, especially given how rushed this shit was.
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This is kind of why we all grinned when Zemo did his thing at the end. They weren't sympathetic.
 
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Mudcrush Durtfeet

Mudcrush Durtfeet

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Chukzombi said:
the worst part about Wandavision, this show and any future MCU tv show is, they will all be unfinished messes nobody here will ever want to rewatch or talk about after they are over.
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And yet I suspect Chuk will talk of them until he dies (or post inane videos).

And I'll be here to react to those posts.
 
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Sevens

Sevens

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Gavinmad said:
They WERE sympathetic until Karli decided to start murdering people.

Also I didn't realize she was a gender-bent character. Flag-Smasher is a character in the comics named Karl Morgenthau lol.
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I cheered when Karli got shot and died, god damn I hated that character with a passion.
 
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Sanrith Descartes

Sanrith Descartes

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a c i d.f l y said:
Villains that you're suddenly supposed to sympathetize with. Zemo, Karli, and back and forth on US Agent. Though Zemo and Agent's performances were knocked out of the park.
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I disagree on one point. I have always sympathized with Zemo, even though he did murder a ton of folks. Civil war made him incredibly sympathetic. He is a true 3-dimensional character. Sitting and listening to the phone message from his dead wife while waiting for Panther to come kill him was well crafted. His convo with the little kids about the supers and Karli was well done. He, like Loki, is a textbook case of how to design movie villains. I know he is a bad guy and mass murderer, but I also "understand" why he is the way he is and it evokes sympathy.

The one downside to Bruhl's casting as Zemo is that I honestly think he would be one of the best possibile choice for Dr Doom because the dude can flat out act and can reach an audience.
 
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a c i d.f l y

a c i d.f l y

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Sanrith Descartes said:
I disagree on one point. I have always sympathized with Zemo, even though he did murder a ton of folks. Civil war made him incredibly sympathetic. He is a true 3-dimensional character. Sitting and listening to the phone message from his dead wife while waiting for Panther to come kill him was well crafted. His convo with the little kids about the supers and Karli was well done. He, like Loki, is a textbook case of how to design movie villains. I know he is a bad guy and mass murderer, but I also "understand" why he is the way he is and it evokes sympathy.

The one downside to Bruhl's casting as Zemo is that I honestly think he would be one of the best possibile choice for Dr Doom because the dude can flat out act and can reach an audience.
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It's not that they aren't sympathetic, it's that they fly into that so hard that they borderline become heroes. Zemo was cool, don't get me wrong, already stated one of the best scenes in all of Marvel was when BP talks to Zemo. It just seemed odd to take a wild guy and suddenly make him... Honorable? I don't know the appropriate word. Bucky is different. He was manipulated.

I was also going to bring up Loki as being a quintessential villain. Adopted subordinate step brother of a conquered people led by people who act righteous with a history of conquering. Caused the death of many, and suddenly hero-ish. A lot like Gamora. Nebula. But quite different.
 
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OneofOne

OneofOne

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The woke BS just made me cringe too much. "There are millions of people who hate seeing me in this suit, but here I am." Really, all 10k of them? Just hitting us over and over and over on the head with this shit.

And Sharon went from uber good guy to bad guy just like that? Man, that better be some deep undercover shit.

Whatever. Doesn't make me regret canceling Disney one iota.
 
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Chukzombi

Chukzombi

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OneofOne said:
The woke BS just made me cringe too much. "There are millions of people who hate seeing me in this suit, but here I am." Really, all 10k of them? Just hitting us over and over and over on the head with this shit.

And Sharon went from uber good guy to bad guy just like that? Man, that better be some deep undercover shit.

Whatever. Doesn't make me regret canceling Disney one iota.
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not to worry, you wont ever see or hear from Sharon Carter again. you wont hear about flag smashers. maybe you will see more of Walker and Zemo because thats all anyone has been talking about on this show. there was no buzz for Sam or Bucky at the end of the day. its why i said that Bucky needs to move the fuck on.
 
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OneofOne

OneofOne

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Chukzombi said:
her story is stupid and pointless, her only link anymore is Sam and that was only through Cap. she is unimportant to anything or anyone.
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Except she brings the whole Madripoor angle in, and that's an island with quite an interesting history. Frankly you could have an entire show based out of shit that happens there or related to shit that happens there. Still can't see Sharon running the underworld, though.
 
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