This. No wonder the Tolkien family didn't want Peter Jackson anywhere near "The Hobbit."
The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies (2014)
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Palum
what Suineg set it to
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No, it's actually that PJ just completely fabricated huge story segments (the Necromancer). Regardless of how you want to justify it, it changes the pacing and dynamic of the story and ultimately, PJ is no Tolkien. Not knowing something can be a very important story device...
Plus, I think there's just a general understanding that thecompletelyneedless shit (love triangle and barrel scenes) aren't worthy of inclusion at all because it already feels stretched.
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Never read hobbit or lotr. Just watch these films as a fantasy/cinema fan.
The best version of the LOTR films is accomplished by removing every scene with just Hobbits in it. From the 3 films you end up with a 3 hour epic fantasy battle movie. It's the story of the races of middle earth coming together to vanquish a great evil. The redemption of rohan and it's return to greatness. good conquering evil with swords and magic and talking trees. This is accomplished by removing from the 9 hours of film, the 6 hours of BORING short people walking places and shit and a whole lotta nothing happening. This is especially necessary when you realize they have giant eagles who basically invalidate the need to walk anywhere and the entire premise of the story as presented.
The hobbit movies so far, out of 2 movies thus far, is only 6 hours of short people walking places and shit. And yeah, they got eagles here too so what is the point? So when I try to make it into a good movie, I end up with the opening credits and 1 scene with some stupid gandalf like guy on a rabbit sled.
If one of PJs goals of these films is to encourage people to read tolkien, then with LOTR he kinda succeeds. Take away all the short people walking and there's a decent story left over. might be worth reading. With the hobbit? based on what i've seen in the 2 films thus far, no thank you. based on these movies (yes i know, that's what you guys are bitching about) not even sure how this shitty story got published.
The best version of the LOTR films is accomplished by removing every scene with just Hobbits in it. From the 3 films you end up with a 3 hour epic fantasy battle movie. It's the story of the races of middle earth coming together to vanquish a great evil. The redemption of rohan and it's return to greatness. good conquering evil with swords and magic and talking trees. This is accomplished by removing from the 9 hours of film, the 6 hours of BORING short people walking places and shit and a whole lotta nothing happening. This is especially necessary when you realize they have giant eagles who basically invalidate the need to walk anywhere and the entire premise of the story as presented.
The hobbit movies so far, out of 2 movies thus far, is only 6 hours of short people walking places and shit. And yeah, they got eagles here too so what is the point? So when I try to make it into a good movie, I end up with the opening credits and 1 scene with some stupid gandalf like guy on a rabbit sled.
If one of PJs goals of these films is to encourage people to read tolkien, then with LOTR he kinda succeeds. Take away all the short people walking and there's a decent story left over. might be worth reading. With the hobbit? based on what i've seen in the 2 films thus far, no thank you. based on these movies (yes i know, that's what you guys are bitching about) not even sure how this shitty story got published.
Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
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people have been mirroring that "walking and eagles" schtick since kevin smith fed you those lines 8 years ago. its meant as a joke and not a serious critique of the films. sauron's eye is in the sky watching. whats he more likely to see. something coming at him at his level or 2 small creatures shuffling along at the corner of his view? the fellowship mission was one of stealth as was thorin's, bilbo was their burglar. yeah stealth. i cant wait for the next clerks movie so people can get new memes to work with.
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Here's a perfect example of what I hate about the LOTR movies. In the books, the Hobbits aren't just comic relief and aside from the Bombadil stuff which drags on a bit, they aren't boring either. They undergo a tremendous amount of character development from the ignorant country bumpkins they start out as, to the point that when they get home nobody recognizes them at first. Merry was instrumental in killing the Witch King, they found Pippin buried under a pile of corpses after the Field of Cormallen, and when Frodo couldn't keep going Sam carried his ass the rest of the way up Mt. Doom. The quest would have failed if any one of the Hobbits had been left behind in Rivendell.
Hell what was probably the worst scene in all three movies was when Pippin offered his service to Denethor in payment for Boromir giving his life to save him. In the book it's a very serious thing, showing that Pippin has a strong sense of personal honor, and Gandalf compliments him for it afterwards. In the movie, the scene is awkward as hell and Gandalf calls him an idiot.
I mean they're still really good movies, but the scenes with Merry, Pippin, Gimli, and Legolas are generally pretty awful and the biggest departures from the books.
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Oh no it is most definitely a serious critique against the films.
I realize that small/weak/useless race like hobbits can contribute and ultimately be the heroes who save middle earth is kind of the premise of LOTR, but only when you frame it just so.
How it should have ended version of the LOTR trilogy:
scene 1, the shire. gandalf realizes that bilbo/frodo has the 1 ring.
gandalf: "hey frodo, put that ring back in an envelop. put that envelop in a box. lock that box. aight let's go" whistles for magical eagles to appear.
scene 2, montage scene from elf city, rohan, Gondor, etc.
gandalf: "Yo i need you ppl to stand in front of the gates at mordor and distract sauron's army for about 3 minutes."
scene 3, while sauron is distracted, flight of eagles flying over volcano. drop box (and frodo if you want) into volcano.
fin.
2 minute movie.
again I never read LOTR so I don't know if there was more to the story than that. but in the films, as presented, that giant eyeball couldn't do shit but watch. it's not like it could shoot laser beams or anything. at best it could command the ringwraith dudes on their flying lizard eel things to go and try and fight the flock of giant eagles, but as shown in the films sauron is very easily distracted and he's already sent those dudes out scouring the country side. He's a shitty tactician basically and wouldn't have had enough of those dudes in reserve to stop gandalf from getting to the volcano and destroying the ring, not that he would even know that he'd need to keep some flying units in reserve for an aerial battle. in all honesty they'd all still be on horseback in the shire trying to ride back.
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
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It never occurs to Sauron that they would try to destroy the ring. That's the only reason their plan works. He assumes they would either hide it from him or try to use it against him in desperation.
Sauron wasn't omniscient or omnipotent even with the ring, he was defeated not once but three times in the Second Age, the last defeat being when Elendil cut the ring from his finger. The problem is that in the Third Age, nobody is left with the strength to oppose him directly. The Dwarves are broken and scattered, the Elves are leaving, and Men are divided and weak.
The eagles couldn't take the ring because it would have corrupted them, as it would any powerful being who handled it. This was driven home in the movies pretty frequently. At the end, even the "incorruptible" Hobbit Frodo couldn't destroy it. And yes, Sauron would have noticed a flock of giant eagles flying into Mordor. A tiny group of travelers on foot would have had a much better chance of evading notice.
Gamma Rays
Large sized member
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From what I can gather from your idiotic posts, I seriously doubt you've ever read a book in your life.
Big Phoenix
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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Was sauron's eye sight like radar or something? Only works above a certain altitude and is messed up by ground clutter?
Big Phoenix
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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Was sauron's eye sight like radar or something? Only works above a certain altitude and is messed up by ground clutter?
Palum
what Suineg set it to
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No, the Eagles are a huge plot hole from the perspective ofpossibilitieswithin the universe, but not in practice. Tolkien used them as a Deus Ex Machina and he was aware of it. He made them intelligent enough for the reader to make sense their actions, but also kept them spirits and distant. He very gingerly used them in LotR because he understood the issues of explaining them any further and complicating the story when they can seemingly do anything by air.
Any excuses in the stories themselves are fan fantasy. At most you can know they did not do it in LotR, so they either would not or could not carry the ring(bearer). But that really isn't a plot hole per se, because the Eagles are never illustrated to be anything other than a force of nature. That's like saying 'Yea but what if that cop the bad guy had attacked was a black belt in Kung Fu and he arrested the lackey and foiled the villains plans 3 minutes into the opening scene?'
Any excuses in the stories themselves are fan fantasy. At most you can know they did not do it in LotR, so they either would not or could not carry the ring(bearer). But that really isn't a plot hole per se, because the Eagles are never illustrated to be anything other than a force of nature. That's like saying 'Yea but what if that cop the bad guy had attacked was a black belt in Kung Fu and he arrested the lackey and foiled the villains plans 3 minutes into the opening scene?'
Chris
Potato del Grande
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The LotR MMO did a good job of explaining it, go near a place where the enemy's power is too strong and you lose control of your character and run away in panic. The Eagles would either get corrupted by The Ring on the journey or be seen by Sauron (like Frodo was in the film) and freak out under his mind powers.
Caliane
Avatar of War Slayer
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yeah, watching part 2 right now for the first time...
Its really damaging to the movie. The Hobbit is NOT a LOTR prequel. Adding ALL this shit about Sauron, and the upcoming war totally fucking ruins these movies. It completely rewrites what is going on.
Every fucking time Bilbo touches the ring, we get the same stupid, "OMG THE RING IS EVIL AND CONTROLING HIM", from LOTR. Except.. none of that happened the first time. The entire plotline, of the The Hobbit, has been redone, to be a prequel here. Its not about Bilbos adventure, or Smaug. its now just a giant sidestory, about Gandolf building an army to fight Sauron(and failing), Legolas being awesome, and Bilbo finding the ring, with Gandolf again being super retarded for not noticing the ring for another 50 years.
why the fuck did Bat-legolas just steal the show in a book/movie he was not even in?
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Well, Gandalf did save Gwaihir's life before the events of the Hobbit, but Gwaihir then saved Gandalf like three times. At any rate, I like to assume the great eagles are sort of like the centaurs from Harry Potter, considering it beneath themselves to serve as mounts and pack mules except in dire circumstances.
Also the movie birds are smaller and dumber. In the books they're capable of speech.
Also the movie birds are smaller and dumber. In the books they're capable of speech.